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	<title>Comments on: Write more to write better</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.labix.org/2008/08/04/write-more-to-write-better/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.labix.org/2008/08/04/write-more-to-write-better</link>
	<description>by Gustavo Niemeyer</description>
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		<title>By: links for 2009-05-03 &#171; Object neo = neo Object</title>
		<link>http://blog.labix.org/2008/08/04/write-more-to-write-better/comment-page-1#comment-64710</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2009-05-03 &#171; Object neo = neo Object</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 04:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labix.org/?p=95#comment-64710</guid>
		<description>[...] Write more to write better « Labix Blog Very insightful. It seems to be obvious, in theory. The praxis brings pain and those talented who persist seem to succeed. (tags: python blog software) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Write more to write better « Labix Blog Very insightful. It seems to be obvious, in theory. The praxis brings pain and those talented who persist seem to succeed. (tags: python blog software) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Per Øyvind Karlsen</title>
		<link>http://blog.labix.org/2008/08/04/write-more-to-write-better/comment-page-1#comment-61228</link>
		<dc:creator>Per Øyvind Karlsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 01:59:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labix.org/?p=95#comment-61228</guid>
		<description>Hmmm, so very, very, veeeerryyyy TRUE.

I find myself trying more and more to suppress my own OCD tendencies of perfectionism..

Hard to find the balance, but I really think this made a good point and more clear to me actually. :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm, so very, very, veeeerryyyy TRUE.</p>
<p>I find myself trying more and more to suppress my own OCD tendencies of perfectionism..</p>
<p>Hard to find the balance, but I really think this made a good point and more clear to me actually. <img src='http://blog.labix.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: jgwong</title>
		<link>http://blog.labix.org/2008/08/04/write-more-to-write-better/comment-page-1#comment-45902</link>
		<dc:creator>jgwong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 18:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labix.org/?p=95#comment-45902</guid>
		<description>&quot;If people knew how hard I worked to get my mastery, it wouldn&#039;t seem so wonderful after all.&quot;
- Michelangelo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If people knew how hard I worked to get my mastery, it wouldn&#8217;t seem so wonderful after all.&#8221;<br />
- Michelangelo</p>
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		<title>By: Tabgal</title>
		<link>http://blog.labix.org/2008/08/04/write-more-to-write-better/comment-page-1#comment-45847</link>
		<dc:creator>Tabgal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 19:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labix.org/?p=95#comment-45847</guid>
		<description>But do you need to spend a month writing a prototype? Can&#039;t you write several prototypes for tiny aspects (and of course, throw them away). IDEO does that with HARDWARE, btw. And maybe in agile/interactive development we can write prototypes on-the-fly...

Problem is, sometimes people write the prototype then go into &#039;stovepipe/BBoM/Architectural Astronaut mode&#039;.

Also, this: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html

&quot;The only way out this trap is acknowledging that simpler is harder&quot;. I guess the key point is ABSTRACTION. If you get the abstraction / architecture right, there goes most of your problem. And yes, it is hard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But do you need to spend a month writing a prototype? Can&#8217;t you write several prototypes for tiny aspects (and of course, throw them away). IDEO does that with HARDWARE, btw. And maybe in agile/interactive development we can write prototypes on-the-fly&#8230;</p>
<p>Problem is, sometimes people write the prototype then go into &#8217;stovepipe/BBoM/Architectural Astronaut mode&#8217;.</p>
<p>Also, this: <a href="http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html</a></p>
<p>&#8220;The only way out this trap is acknowledging that simpler is harder&#8221;. I guess the key point is ABSTRACTION. If you get the abstraction / architecture right, there goes most of your problem. And yes, it is hard.</p>
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		<title>By: Gustavo Niemeyer</title>
		<link>http://blog.labix.org/2008/08/04/write-more-to-write-better/comment-page-1#comment-45843</link>
		<dc:creator>Gustavo Niemeyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labix.org/?p=95#comment-45843</guid>
		<description>Thiago,

You seem to present an over-generalized view of what &quot;the corporate world&quot; means.  Where I work we do have pretty high standards for code quality, and care a *lot* about how maintainable a product is.

Also, like Leonardo, I do believe it&#039;d be feasible to propose this in cases where we have to understand the problem domain better.  It would need discussion and analysis to get accepted, of course.

Tight schedules and short budgets do happen occasionally too, and these will certainly limit what&#039;s feasible.  I don&#039;t think that&#039;s specific to that &quot;corporate world&quot;, though.  Schedules and budget is part of our society, and we have to learn to deal with them in a positive way.


Leonardo,

Yes, indeed if all one can do is writing ugly code, writing more often, publishing, contributing, and learning from mistakes and external advices are good ways to move forward.  Reading and comprehending good code is also a good way to improve one&#039;s practice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thiago,</p>
<p>You seem to present an over-generalized view of what &#8220;the corporate world&#8221; means.  Where I work we do have pretty high standards for code quality, and care a *lot* about how maintainable a product is.</p>
<p>Also, like Leonardo, I do believe it&#8217;d be feasible to propose this in cases where we have to understand the problem domain better.  It would need discussion and analysis to get accepted, of course.</p>
<p>Tight schedules and short budgets do happen occasionally too, and these will certainly limit what&#8217;s feasible.  I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s specific to that &#8220;corporate world&#8221;, though.  Schedules and budget is part of our society, and we have to learn to deal with them in a positive way.</p>
<p>Leonardo,</p>
<p>Yes, indeed if all one can do is writing ugly code, writing more often, publishing, contributing, and learning from mistakes and external advices are good ways to move forward.  Reading and comprehending good code is also a good way to improve one&#8217;s practice.</p>
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		<title>By: Leonardo Boiko</title>
		<link>http://blog.labix.org/2008/08/04/write-more-to-write-better/comment-page-1#comment-45838</link>
		<dc:creator>Leonardo Boiko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 16:58:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labix.org/?p=95#comment-45838</guid>
		<description>My theory: Paul Graham, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.paulgraham.com/taste.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;on taste&lt;/a&gt;, has pointed that “good design looks easy”.  Good code looks easy.  You sit down wanting to write good code and quickly it develops into a Big Ball of Mud.  You give up in despair, because you thought it’d be so simple and how come you just committed all the sins everyone says programmers should stay away from.

The only way out this trap is acknowledging that simpler is harder, is to detach yourself from your code and not be ashamed of publishing ugly code (or you won’t publish none).  One probably has to learn this the hard way though :)

&gt; Can you convince your boss that you should work one or two months in a problem and then throw away the result of your labour?

Well I can :D and you  too should work for enlightened companies!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My theory: Paul Graham, <a href="http://www.paulgraham.com/taste.html" rel="nofollow">on taste</a>, has pointed that “good design looks easy”.  Good code looks easy.  You sit down wanting to write good code and quickly it develops into a Big Ball of Mud.  You give up in despair, because you thought it’d be so simple and how come you just committed all the sins everyone says programmers should stay away from.</p>
<p>The only way out this trap is acknowledging that simpler is harder, is to detach yourself from your code and not be ashamed of publishing ugly code (or you won’t publish none).  One probably has to learn this the hard way though <img src='http://blog.labix.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>&gt; Can you convince your boss that you should work one or two months in a problem and then throw away the result of your labour?</p>
<p>Well I can <img src='http://blog.labix.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />  and you  too should work for enlightened companies!</p>
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		<title>By: Thiago Jung Bauermann</title>
		<link>http://blog.labix.org/2008/08/04/write-more-to-write-better/comment-page-1#comment-45795</link>
		<dc:creator>Thiago Jung Bauermann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 00:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labix.org/?p=95#comment-45795</guid>
		<description>Well, I&#039;m not surprised that the idea of building a prototype and then trowing it away didn&#039;t catch... Can you convince your boss that you should work one or two months in a problem and then throw away the result of your labour?

I agree that it&#039;s a very good practice and will doubtlessly make your final software better designed. But that&#039;s not what the corporate world wants. They only want something that works good enough (with surprisingly low criteria for &quot;good enough&quot;) so that they can sell it. They don&#039;t even care if the codebase is maintainable. They&#039;ll just keep throwing more developers at it if it isn&#039;t.

Software companies care a bit about good design, and try to get it right. But only to the extent that it doesn&#039;t get in the way of their tight schedule and short budget.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;m not surprised that the idea of building a prototype and then trowing it away didn&#8217;t catch&#8230; Can you convince your boss that you should work one or two months in a problem and then throw away the result of your labour?</p>
<p>I agree that it&#8217;s a very good practice and will doubtlessly make your final software better designed. But that&#8217;s not what the corporate world wants. They only want something that works good enough (with surprisingly low criteria for &#8220;good enough&#8221;) so that they can sell it. They don&#8217;t even care if the codebase is maintainable. They&#8217;ll just keep throwing more developers at it if it isn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Software companies care a bit about good design, and try to get it right. But only to the extent that it doesn&#8217;t get in the way of their tight schedule and short budget.</p>
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		<title>By: Gustavo Niemeyer</title>
		<link>http://blog.labix.org/2008/08/04/write-more-to-write-better/comment-page-1#comment-45779</link>
		<dc:creator>Gustavo Niemeyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 20:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labix.org/?p=95#comment-45779</guid>
		<description>Hey Capitulino,

I don&#039;t recall this being a documented part of any of the agile processes I&#039;ve read about.  It&#039;s slightly different to embrace change, which is indeed advocated by them, and to design a system with the goal of learning about the problems at hand.

I may be wrong, of course.  Do you have any pointers to documentation of the common agile methods which indicate something similar?

In the team I&#039;m part of, for instance, we have pretty much trashed and rebuilt a system once, but this wasn&#039;t planned and it took some time to understand that it was an issue, and to accept that it was needed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Capitulino,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t recall this being a documented part of any of the agile processes I&#8217;ve read about.  It&#8217;s slightly different to embrace change, which is indeed advocated by them, and to design a system with the goal of learning about the problems at hand.</p>
<p>I may be wrong, of course.  Do you have any pointers to documentation of the common agile methods which indicate something similar?</p>
<p>In the team I&#8217;m part of, for instance, we have pretty much trashed and rebuilt a system once, but this wasn&#8217;t planned and it took some time to understand that it was an issue, and to accept that it was needed.</p>
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		<title>By: sri</title>
		<link>http://blog.labix.org/2008/08/04/write-more-to-write-better/comment-page-1#comment-45775</link>
		<dc:creator>sri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 19:12:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labix.org/?p=95#comment-45775</guid>
		<description>the &quot;War of Art&quot; is a good book on overcoming Resistance,
which is what people usually face when beginning something...

Here are 2 nice quote from it:
=====
Someone once asked Somerset Maugham if he wrote on a
schedule or only when struck by inspiration. 
&quot;I write only when inspiration strikes,&quot; he replied. 
Fortunately it strikes every morning at nine o&#039;clock sharp.&quot; 
That&#039;s a pro. (p64)
=====
Why have I stressed professionalism so heavily in
the preceding chapters? Because the most important 
thing about art is to work. Nothing else matters except 
sitting down everyday and trying. Why is this so 
important? Because ... [when we do that] ... something 
mysterious starts to happen. ... heaven comes to our 
aid. [Professionalism or Artist&#039;s Code or 
Warrior&#039;s Way is] an attitude of egolessness and 
service. (p108)
=====</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the &#8220;War of Art&#8221; is a good book on overcoming Resistance,<br />
which is what people usually face when beginning something&#8230;</p>
<p>Here are 2 nice quote from it:<br />
=====<br />
Someone once asked Somerset Maugham if he wrote on a<br />
schedule or only when struck by inspiration.<br />
&#8220;I write only when inspiration strikes,&#8221; he replied.<br />
Fortunately it strikes every morning at nine o&#8217;clock sharp.&#8221;<br />
That&#8217;s a pro. (p64)<br />
=====<br />
Why have I stressed professionalism so heavily in<br />
the preceding chapters? Because the most important<br />
thing about art is to work. Nothing else matters except<br />
sitting down everyday and trying. Why is this so<br />
important? Because &#8230; [when we do that] &#8230; something<br />
mysterious starts to happen. &#8230; heaven comes to our<br />
aid. [Professionalism or Artist's Code or<br />
Warrior's Way is] an attitude of egolessness and<br />
service. (p108)<br />
=====</p>
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		<title>By: Luiz Capitulino</title>
		<link>http://blog.labix.org/2008/08/04/write-more-to-write-better/comment-page-1#comment-45773</link>
		<dc:creator>Luiz Capitulino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 18:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labix.org/?p=95#comment-45773</guid>
		<description>Although I fully agree with you, I think that Brooks&#039;s famous advice &#039;plan to throw one away, you will anyhow&#039; has been incorporated by most Agile development processes. This mean that if you are using an Agile development process you may consider not doing a specific prototype, because you will likely start your development by building one.

The advice seems to be more important for those who are still in the waterfall age.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I fully agree with you, I think that Brooks&#8217;s famous advice &#8216;plan to throw one away, you will anyhow&#8217; has been incorporated by most Agile development processes. This mean that if you are using an Agile development process you may consider not doing a specific prototype, because you will likely start your development by building one.</p>
<p>The advice seems to be more important for those who are still in the waterfall age.</p>
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